Safe to Hope Podcast

All suffering is loss, but God leaves nothing unused in His plans. We help women see His redemptive thread throughout their circumstances and then look for opportunities to join with God in His transforming work.

Shepherding, Safety, and Spiritual Care Questionnaire

Spiritual, Emotional, and Psychological Abuse Questionnaire

Dr. Ann Maree Goudzwaard

Founder and Executive Director of Help[H]er.

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Season 7 Episode 14 - Expert Contributor Mary DeMuth

Mary DeMuth – Expert Contributor

Is It Spiritual Abuse?

In this episode, Ann Maree and Julia welcome author and survivor advocate Mary DeMuth to reflect on Elyse’s story and the painful realities of spiritual abuse and church betrayal. They explore what happens when truth is distorted, leaders and systems protect power rather than people, and the longing for belonging leaves deep wounds. Their conversation also considers the challenges women face in the church, the importance of trustworthy community and accountability, and the hope found in grounding faith in Jesus while trusting God’s justice and restorative work.

Resources for Further Exploration

We Too — Mary DeMuth
Drawing from survivor experiences, research, Scripture, and Mary’s own story, We Too addresses sexual abuse within Christian communities and calls the church toward truth, safety, justice, and compassionate care for survivors.

Church Bewilderment — Mary DeMuth
Mary’s forthcoming book explores the disorientation and grief that can occur when the words, values, and promises of a church community no longer align with a person’s lived experience. Mary shares in this conversation that the book is expected in early 2027.

Pray Every Day — Mary DeMuth
Mary’s daily podcast moves through Scripture and prayer. In this episode, she describes the prophets—and Isaiah in particular—as an important source of grounding when church experiences leave people questioning truth, justice, and what they have witnessed.

Need Support?

If this conversation stirred something for you, you do not have to navigate it alone.

Help[H]er provides trauma-specialized advocacy, education, and navigation for women in crisis in the church, guiding them toward safety, agency, and restored dignity.

Learn more or connect with Help[H]er at HelpHer.help.

About Safe to Hope

Safe to Hope creates space for women to tell their stories of suffering and loss with care, dignity, and honesty. Nothing in our storyteller conversations is intended to pressure forgiveness, reconciliation, or closure. Our aim is to listen with care and honor the dignity of each woman’s experience.

One note: Mary’s current official bookstore does not list Church Bewilderment as it is expected in early 2027. (marydemuth.com)

Season 7 Episode 13 - Storyteller

Story – “Elyse”

Is It Spiritual Abuse?

In this episode, storyteller Elyse reflects on more than five decades in the church and ministry, including years of writing, counseling, speaking, and navigating church cultures that increasingly limited women’s voices and gifts. She shares the pain of rejection, dishonesty, broken leadership, and the pressure to fit within systems she once believed were faithful. The episode explores themes of spiritual abuse, belonging, power, gender, grief, and freedom, while tracing Elyse’s journey toward reexamining long-held beliefs and finding a church community where she can fully use her gifts. Ultimately, her story is about separating the failures of the church from the character of Jesus and holding onto hope in Him through betrayal and loss.

Resources Related to This Story

Elyse’s story traces more than five decades in evangelical churches, ministries, publishing, and biblical counseling. She reflects on her deep desire for family and belonging, the cost of fitting herself into systems that valued her gifts within prescribed boundaries, repeated experiences of institutional dishonesty and betrayal, and ultimately the freedom she found in separating her love for Jesus from her need for acceptance and respectability within evangelical institutions.

Mary DeMuth & Jeremiah’s “Fire in My Bones”
Elyse describes a pivotal conversation with Mary DeMuth, who referenced Jeremiah’s experience of God’s Word being like a fire shut up in his bones. Hearing Mary describe her own experience helped Elyse recognize how exhausted she had become from continually suppressing her desire and gifting to speak and teach.

Need Support?

If this conversation stirred something for you, you do not have to navigate it alone.

Help[H]er provides trauma-specialized advocacy, education, and navigation for women in crisis in the church, guiding them toward safety, agency, and restored dignity.

Learn more or connect with Help[H]er at HelpHer.help.

About Safe to Hope

Season 7 Episode 12 - Summer Book Review: Bible Truth About Women

Summer Book Review: Bible Truth About Women

In this episode of Safe to Hope, Ann Maree talks with author Lydia Grace Kaiser about her book "Bible Truth About Women: What They Don’t Tell You." They examine how translation choices, cultural assumptions, and long-held interpretations of Scripture have shaped beliefs about women in the church and home, and how those beliefs can contribute to harmful power dynamics and spiritual abuse. Lydia explores passages from Genesis, the life of Jesus, women in church leadership, and marriage, ultimately pointing listeners toward a biblical vision of mutuality, shared responsibility, and freedom to follow God’s calling.

To Heal or Harm Steven Tracy

Holy Hurt, Hillary McBride

Something’s Not Right, Wade Mullen

Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse, Lisa Oakley

Breaking the Silence on Spiritual Abuse, Lisa Oakley

Downsizing, Michelle Van Loon

When Narcissim Comes to Church, Chuck DeGroat

Healing What’s Within, Chuck DeGroat

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, Dave Johnson, Jeff Van Vonderen

Institutional Betrayal Questionnaire

The Allender Center

Aaron Hann’s support groups

Season 7 Episode 11 - Expert Contributor Rachael Clinton Chen

Bonus Episode: Rachael Clinton Chen – Expert Contributor

Is It Spiritual Abuse?

In this episode, Julia continues her conversation with Rachael Clinton Chen about discernment, trust, and genuine repair after spiritual abuse. Together, they explore how survivors can rebuild trust in their own perceptions, distinguish true repentance from performative apologies, and recognize the humility, accountability, and lasting change required for meaningful repair. They also offer compassionate guidance for those deciding whether to remain in or step away from a harmful relationship or community.

To Heal or Harm Steven Tracy

Holy Hurt, Hillary McBride

Something’s Not Right, Wade Mullen

Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse, Lisa Oakley

Breaking the Silence on Spiritual Abuse, Lisa Oakley

Downsizing, Michelle Van Loon

When Narcissim Comes to Church, Chuck DeGroat

Healing What’s Within, Chuck DeGroat

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, Dave Johnson, Jeff Van Vonderen

Institutional Betrayal Questionnaire

The Allender Center

Aaron Hann’s support groups