In this episode of the Safe to Hope podcast, Ann Maree and Julia speak with therapist, author, and professor Chuck DeGroat about the relationship between narcissism, spiritual abuse, trauma, and healing within church systems. Chuck explains how narcissistic traits often stem from a fragile sense of self but can become deeply harmful when paired with pastoral authority, religious language, and systems that protect image over accountability. The conversation explores how spiritual abuse diminishes a person’s worth, belonging, and purpose, how unhealthy leaders and systems often silence truth-tellers, and why real repentance requires curiosity, specificity, humility, and repair rather than vague apologies. Chuck also emphasizes the embodied impact of trauma, explaining how survivors often experience disconnection, shame, physical symptoms, and deep betrayal, while healing requires being seen, believed, and held in safe community.

In this episode of Safe to Hope, Ann Maree and Julia sit down with Dr. Steve Tracy, President of Mending the Soul Ministries, to explore the reality of spiritual abuse within the Church. Through theological insight and real-life application, Dr. Tracy helps unpack how misuse of authority, emotional neglect, and distorted interpretations of Scripture can deeply impact survivors. Grounded in Helen’s story, this conversation sheds light on the subtle warning signs of unhealthy systems, the importance of emotional and spiritual maturity in leadership, and the hope found in a God who sees, cares, and redeems.